Jan Wieck wrote:
> It appeared to me that Craig needed to get something off his chest after 
> getting very frustrated. And getting frustrated with Slony is something 
> that we all know is possible. The only thing that really worried me in 
> the whole rant was that he obviously ran into all these problems while 
> attempting to use Slony in a large scale production environment without 
> bothering to test and learn in a lab setup prior to risking all that 
> precious data.
> 
> Slony was not developed with that sort of irresponsible user in mind.

Your attitude illustrates the very problem I wrote about -- a lack of concern for the real-life problems of your users, and outright disrepect for criticism.  I rarely engage in these tit-for-tat insult exchanges, as they're not productive.  But in this case, I will at least correct the factual errors in your reply.

I have been using Slony for quite some time.  I started with small databases, "learned the ropes" exactly as you suggest, read the documentation carefully, asked a number of questions on this forum, then replicated a medium-sized database, and finally worked up to a full-sized database.  We have been using Slony successfully for about 6 months, on this very same large production database that caused me all the trouble this week.

So, you are simply flat-out wrong in your assumption.  EVEN AFTER doing exactly what you suggest is the correct way to use Slony, and EVEN AFTER using it successfully for over a year, I have decided to abandon it, based on my extensive experience with Slony itself, and on my expertise as a computer scientist.

I have absolutely no need to get something "off my chest."  I've been around too long to care about such things.  My critique was my way of contributing to the Slony project.  Open source is about collaboration, and sometimes that collaboration comes in the form of feedback, not code.  And you may not like the feedback ... does that mean I shouldn't tell you the truth?  If I make use of your project, and I decide I can't use it, the least I can do is tell you why.

As for my expertise, I've operated Oracle, MySQL and Postgres databases for almost 15 years.   I started programming in high school 1968, received a bachelor's degree in computer science in 1978 from UC Davis, and my Master's degree in 1985 from Stanford University, which was paid for by an honors fellowship from Hewlett Packard Laboratories, where I was a reasearcher in molecular modeling.  I am considered one of the world's leading experts in my field (chemical database systems), and was a director of computer architecture at a major scientific software company.

Do you thing you're dealing with kids?

Calling my carefully-worded critique a "rant" is hardly the way a computer scientist should treat a fellow computer scientists who is offering his time and experience to give your project his expert advice.

> I am sorry that Slony does not meet Craig's ease of use expectations. As 
> has been said many times, there can not be a one size fits all approach 
> to replication. Hopefully he will find that some other project, like 
> Mammoth (which is being open sourced right now) can deliver the 
> functionality, performance as well as simplicity that he expects.

My "rant" was about quality, not ease of use.  If you've never read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," you may not know the difference.  It's a book every real programmer should read ... twice.  It's not an easy book to read, but if you get it, it will change your life.  Ease of use is a natural side effect of a Quality attitude, but quality comes from an appreciation for the beauty in a well-crafted system, not from school.

Sincerely,
Craig